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Author Topic: Discussion for moving to pvp server  (Read 1332 times)

hotmess

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Discussion for moving to pvp server
« on: March 12, 2012, 06:31:50 PM »
Do you want to move to a pvp server?  Do you not want to move to a pvp server.  Discuss the pros discuss the cons.  How is your playtime with mayhem are you having fun?  Lets have a conversation in vent in chat in game in forum.  Lets make the right decision for mayhem and to do that we need your participation.

<3 Hotmess

TestPenis

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Re: Discussion for moving to pvp server
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2012, 06:42:19 PM »
Yes. I do want to move to a pvp shard. I've been wanting to for a long time, actually.
I do like our guild, but we can barely recruit for PVP on a PVE shards as most people in 50 chat troll the idea entirely.
Several of our good players have left/returned to PVP shards.

Pros not including what I've already mentioned:
World PVP. Everyone is flagged. No bullshit people sitting at a rift until they out-number you, and then pounce.
More PVP activity.
A higher likelyhood of ranked matches with our mains, and probably less dumbasses/bots.
A higher probability of twinks on both sides in each bracket.
PVPers who raid are more likely to be doing it for PVP gains, not the continual raiding prowess yawnfest.

Cons:
Well, obvious rogues will have the best advantage in world pvp.
Warriors generally have no healing.
We are all likely to have lesser skill and gear than the normies, I've experienced this on the PTS. But this could also help us improve.
Possible population drop.
Harder to do zone/world events. May or may not be a problem.
Casuals might find themselves overwhelmed in open world.

-Test

TestPenis

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Re: Discussion for moving to pvp server
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2012, 11:22:33 PM »
Wow. Defiant are absolutely horrendous in the 29 bracket on Seastone. Was killing 29 twinks with my 20 Warrior in greens with no runes on them.

Talonclaw

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Re: Discussion for moving to pvp server
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2012, 04:25:56 AM »
Personally I am not interested in moving to a pvp shard.

I find pvp shards annoying. Especially as it often just comes down to which faction has more numbers. I have never enjoyed ganking or being ganked. If I want to pvp I join a warfront. When I want to get something done in a zone I prefer to have the freedom to get it done and not have to look over my shoulder all the time.

I moved to our current server from a pvp server for the above reasons. Got sick of having to fight off 2-4 defiants everytime I wanted to get the pvp dailies done. Can only imagine how bad a world event must be in Ember Island these days.

If the majority of the guild decides to move then good luck, it will be a real shame to lose contact with you all, but I will not be following. Been there, done that, and the grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence.

Regards, Talonclaw / Azuremoon

hotmess

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Re: Discussion for moving to pvp server
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2012, 09:48:02 PM »
I would like to see guild participation and camaraderie in regards to pvp.  If we are going to stay with Laethys what can we do to improve guild involvement and team play?

Randalthor

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Re: Discussion for moving to pvp server
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2012, 07:01:04 PM »
Gaming surveys reflect most players would prefer the PvE shard because PvP shards only allow ganking. No players would like to get ganked because there are no enjoyments of jumping other players that is doing their quest or being unprepared for the battle. Only the minority players enjoy ganking. :'(

I myself am currently a casual player. :o  Yes, as many of you know, my gaming computer's 'radiator' stopped working and a repair was in order. It has been repaired and while I could play 'without a life'. I do have other things in my life, i.e. employment. I am one of the few enterprise architects in my company and I have numerous projects I am working on/assisting with. Needless to say, I am not the 'die hard' gamer I was when I first joined Mayhem. However, as with all gamers, we go in cycles (even if you will not admit to yourself). We all eb and rise in the gaming world. Look back at your gaming time....there are days/weeks one has much play time and then there are times which have less game time.

My time zone is Eastern (UTC -5) and lately there have been minimum number of Guilders and Guildettes on during weekday evenings. Sometimes more are on during weekends. In either case, I cannot even guess how many Guilders and Guildettes are on at other times. We have many members who are from Australia and New Zealand and other Pacific areas. We have had members from the European sector also. Consideration should be given to all these valuable Guilders and Guildettes.

Everyone plays Rift at their own expense.. 8) from the monthly charge to actual playing time. Yes, despite popular belief, an individual's time is important and it is the one resource that can never be stockpiled or recuperated after it is spent/gone.

Individuals within Mayhem have formed friendships based on who is online when they play. I have had the opportunity to log in (okay, I could not sleep a few nights) and saw player names I never saw online before. We have a 24/7 50-person Ventrilo, which is underused. I have never check the usage log to see when it is popular to use and when it is not. The Ventrilo resource is available whether to help with Command and Control during warfronts or just to listen to jokes and catching up on what is going on.

While Mayhem prides itself as a PvP Guild, over the past few months, members have been doing dungeons and other area destruction. This, I believe is PvE. They can do this without fear of being ganked and moving at their own pace. Myself, my documents are not valid for Ember Isle because I am outfitted in Warfront Gear and I know better than to step outside the 'safe' area of EI.

When I have been on, and maybe it is just the time I am on or the time of year, there are few Mayhem PvP groups or calls for infamous Mayhem Countdown 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, queue. I have not seen a countdown since the days when Prince Tut and I got caught skateboarding down the pyramid and bungee jumping off the Sphinx's ears!

I am in favor of camaraderie and I enjoy learning from other Mahemites. It is true that I probably lead in the number of deaths but it only matches my xBox deaths. I do not feel like being target of ganking.

While we are discussing whether or not the guild should stay in the PvE shard or go to a PvE shard, consideration should be made is it for the benefit of Mayhem or is it for personal satisfaction? We have yet, as far as I know of, to do a Mayhem Raid into enemy territory. I thought we could get to Stormwind City or Orgrimmar, but those areas are off limits. Why not have PvP raids to enemy areas within Laethys?

To answer my own question, in two parts the BLUF is: we do not have the members online at the same time and individuals seem to be not interested. This observation is based on my online play time....it may be different when others are online.

What is good for Mayhem? Think about the Russian matryoshka dolls and multilevel selection.  However, everyone is Mayhem is important and is valuable to the Guild. There is a living, breathing carbon-based entity on the other side of the monitor.

Maybe Darwin and Wynne-Edwards ??? were thinking about gamers in their publications. They really did not, but maybe the evolution of going from PvE shards to PvP shards is a natural selection of PvP Guilds. In reverse, have we seen PvP shard members move to a PvE shard?

Just some rambling thoughts for this thread. Yes, it is long, and if you read the whole post, I appreciate our time and any thoughts it might have given rise to.

 :) Please contine the thread with your thoughs. :)

Shortey

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Re: Discussion for moving to pvp server
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2012, 07:54:42 PM »
I'm actually really happy with Mayhem and a pve server. I can log in and quietly do my own thing if I want, or I can group up and run WFs in party mode if that's how I'm feeling. I think the officers are doing an excellent job of creating a warm, inviting, helpful culture without being too suffocating or demanding.

I've been giving the topic and questions in this thread some consideration and most of the ideas I've come up with are actually limitations of Rift as opossed to anything the guild can do on its own. For example not being able to queue as a raid and not being able to countdown queue as parties (cause you just get matched against each other). The strong disincentive for low ranks to queue with rank 40s. Wouldn't it be great if there was a shard that was pvp for a few days then pve for a few days? Best of both worlds.

My ideas for the what the guild can do are these, but I gotta say right off the bat they are pretty minor and I really don't care if they happen or not, they are just ideas:
  • Raid meridian (is this even possible?). I was with a pvp guild on a pve server for a bit in WoW and occassionaly we would hit the horde cities just to mix things up a little. It was quite a bit of posing, really, killing the brave flagged souls over and over but eventually the horde would get organised and wipe us. Certainly not something I'd do every night, but it did contribute to the vibrancy of the server.
  • Form a relationship with a Defiant guild. A bit of organisation and coordination with the other side could help us group queue and the rivalry could be fun. If it works the relationship might provide the catalyst for world pvp events. Every hero needs a nemesis
Both the above ideas really come down to taking the success of Mayhem and using it ito build a pvp leadership role within the shard. Hard to know if it's worth the effort, but it's an idea anyway.

Falic

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Re: Discussion for moving to pvp server
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2012, 01:00:39 AM »
I thoroughly enjoy everyone's feedback on this issue. Any further inputs are extremely helpful.  Just to let you guys know my immediate future plans are to increase recruiting if possible and to cause mayhem at their city. The problems I'm currently running into are  a.) people here generally want to PVE only because they get smashed in warfronts constantly and  b.)we need more than a group of 10 people online to functionally enter their city. Not to mention, ventrilo participation.

The idea of moving and this post was pretty much just to get feedback and to see if people are content with whats happening. 

TestPenis

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Re: Discussion for moving to pvp server
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2012, 08:23:08 PM »
XFER
Well 6 replies so far isn't much feedback to go on. There are other high-ranking guildies that haven't posted on the board, but who have also given their opinions in private to officers. I know 1 other that is in favor of transferring.

RECRUITS
My recruit has been limited to people I have personally played with and enjoy the company of. That being said, I've invited about 2-3 people and then passed everyone else off to other officers. I don't recognize most of the players outside the guild, and don't know their previous guilds, or really anything about them. If their intentions to PVP are serious or not (because, as I've mentioned before, this isn't a PVP shard, so how can you really trust outsiders?). At this point though I think I'll just add anyone who asks just to bring up online presence. I think it's definitely more inspiring to see players on and asking to do things than not.

PLANNING
One of the current issues holding us back is the lack of knowledge when people will be on to do certain things. Second would be lack of plans. This game does not have an in-game calender to keep track of things, and the Guild Wall can easily become cluttered or overlooked. I think that if we at least start using the wall to state an event to either a) pvp, b) dungeon, c) raid, within 3 days of posting, we will at least have some feedback from players in advance, instead of our ask-now-and-hope-for-the-best thing we've been doing lately. The main post should be simple and to the point at the end of the announcement below our guild site and vent info so that people see it when they log in, instead of having to click the wall first.

hotmess

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Re: Discussion for moving to pvp server
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2012, 11:36:11 PM »

    I'm actually really happy with Mayhem and a pve server. I can log in and quietly do my own thing if I want, or I can group up and run WFs in party mode if that's how I'm feeling. I think the officers are doing an excellent job of creating a warm, inviting, helpful culture without being too suffocating or demanding.

    I've been giving the topic and questions in this thread some consideration and most of the ideas I've come up with are actually limitations of Rift as opossed to anything the guild can do on its own. For example not being able to queue as a raid and not being able to countdown queue as parties (cause you just get matched against each other). The strong disincentive for low ranks to queue with rank 40s.

    • Raid meridian (is this even possible?). I was with a pvp guild on a pve server for a bit in WoW and occassionaly we would hit the horde cities just to mix things up a little. It was quite a bit of posing, really, killing the brave flagged souls over and over but eventually the horde would get organised and wipe us. Certainly not something I'd do every night, but it did contribute to the vibrancy of the server.
    • Form a relationship with a Defiant guild. A bit of organisation and coordination with the other side could help us group queue and the rivalry could be fun. If it works the relationship might provide the catalyst for world pvp events. Every hero needs a nemesis
    Both the above ideas really come down to taking the success of Mayhem and using it ito build a pvp leadership role within the shard. Hard to know if it's worth the effort, but it's an idea anyway.

    Let me begin by thanking you for your input shortey.

    1) It has always been my belief that guild play should be an inviting proposal rather than an authoritative mandate.  If we have done a good job then grouping should be fun and then grouping will be perpetuated.

    2) We have done surprisingly well (queue time wise) since the topic of discussion on server change has been brought up.  It works well for groups of 5 but hasn't worked as well in the following circumstances:
         A) Our preconstruct has good members who aren't uber powered.  We get pitted against another preconstruct with 5 rank 40's and get smashed
         B) Our preconstruct gets pitted against another mayhem preconstruct and we are fighting ourselves.
         C) We get a powerful preconstruct and no one to fight against
    POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS:
         A) The guild continues to petition for an optional mercenary flagging system, permitting the comeback of countdown queues
         B) The guild petitions that preconstructed wf queus be opened up to all battlegroups such that preconstructs don't have shit ass queue times

    3) Raid Meridian.  Yes this is possible and we have raided meridian previously with pretty good success.  I believe that we should do this again and maybe do this when we have the guild quest to kill meridian guards.  In order to raid meridian you need a minimum of 2 healers 2 tanks utility and 4 dps to be successful.  This would be improved success if you added another healer and either another tank or another 3 dps.  When guards agro they burn down slow and repop fast.  Moving through the city is done as a plan and people need to be in ventrilo.

    4) Defiant guild relationship: Not a bad idea except for the fact that we would just smash them and they would get demoralized.  I'm not deluding myself on mayhem's abilities, its just a fact...we would fuck them up and they'd get pissed.

    Thanks again,
    Vince (bigrichard//hotmess)

    Brugist

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    Re: Discussion for moving to pvp server
    « Reply #10 on: March 20, 2012, 03:17:26 PM »
    I've let my feelings on this be known on the wall but will post here.
    I for one, relish the idea of moving back to the pvp server. As you guys know I spent a week on seastone this past month, and the world pvp was amazing, there were some really great theory crafters and you got to meet and play against a lot of good players.
    My first night there, we had a 40 v 40 in sanctuary where we actually wiped Vinko Bellum until MMAC showed up.

    But, I won't leave Mayhem again so it's a group consensus.

    hotmess

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    Re: Discussion for moving to pvp server
    « Reply #11 on: March 22, 2012, 02:05:56 PM »
    One concern that hasn't been addressed is the demands a pvp server places upon officers and guildmasters.  I expect that I'd have to devote twice or more time to guild needs if we were on a pvp server.

    1) Distribution of "intellectual//theorycraft" concepts become of improved importance and need to be highlighted.
    2) Propogation of the website takes more time
    3) Ventrilo becomes a near necessity to be effective as a group...
       i.e.  You happen to only have 1 healer, the opposing faction has 2 Rank 40 assassin duo that are doing "coordinated strikes" on your healer.  Chance of saving the healer without vent - 10% or less, Chance of saving the healer with vent 80%.
       i.e. Furthermore..Chance of winning the battle if your not in vent (LOW)...Chance of winning the battle in vent (High)
    4) Building camaraderie, encouraging group play
    5) Dealing with some of the effects of PVP-Server-based ego problems

    So, as I detail this out...If people wish to move to a PVP server these are roles and questions which must be addressed.   If they are not addressed then I'd cast my vote to not move.

    If they are addressed, then I'd consider campaigning for the move.


    At this point, in light of my decreasing amount of play time, I am actually leaning towards staying put.

    Vincent